Five Big Prenup Mistakes

Family Business With Purdeep Sangha

Okay, so I'm super excited for today's conversation because this is a hot topic for guys and obviously women and relationships and marriage. And interestingly enough, it is one of the highest search terms on YouTube, which I found very interesting, specifically around relationships. So today we have two amazing women here joining me. We have Anna Marie, who is a divorce and prenup lawyer.
We've had some great conversations and then Mini Sharma, who is a very, very trained psychotherapist in the areas of couples, relationships. And so we're going to make this fun here today. And so our idea is really to talk about the five biggest mistakes that men make when it comes to talking about finances and in particular prenups. So it's a hot topic, as I mentioned, it's a touchy topic.
So we're going to go through these five big mistakes here. We're hoping that if you're tuning into this, whether it's through audio or through video, that you're going to pick up on some of these challenges and hopefully give you some insight so you don't make these mistakes.
So ladies, welcome. I appreciate you joining us. Thank you. So Anna Marie, I'm going to throw it over to you.
So what is the first mistake that men make when it comes to prenups or finances before marriage?
Okay, this one is actually fairly common, which is a little bit of a surprise, but it's bringing up the idea or the notion of a prenup too late.
And what do I mean by that?
On the eve of your wedding, a week before your wedding, you decide to sort of drop this on your partner fiance's lap. And it's surprisingly common. People don't realize the impact and magnitude of bringing this up so close to the wedding. Okay. So maybe you can, let's give them an example.
So what do you think that would look like?
Is it something that I should start or do you think you should start this part?
Oh, I'll start it. And I kind of like this idea of a bit of a reenactment on what this conversation might look like. So being Pradeep, if you don't mind, I'll be taking the role of your fiance to be. And let's just start the conversation. So Pradeep, I'm really excited about the wedding tomorrow. The dress is in. I talked to the caterer.
There's a lot of complications about the menu, but I think we've got it all sorted out. I also talked to Aunt Jane. She's okay with the seating arrangements. You are going to have to do some airport pickups because we do have some people coming in from out of town, but I think we've got it all under control. And I think it's going to be an amazing day tomorrow. So I'm really excited.
Everything's coming into place and you and I are getting married tomorrow.
Well, and I'm going to call you honey because I call my wife babe, but so I don't feel awkward calling you honey.
I can say, honey, that's awesome. I'm super excited. I just want to talk to you about something here because I think it's important to talk about.
I know it's kind of awkward, but how do you feel about whether it's finances or the concept of a prenup?
Because I think maybe we should talk about this prior to actually getting married tomorrow. I'm confused. You're talking about finances.
Are you talking about how we're going to pay for the wedding?
Because I think we've kind of already sorted all of that through.
Yeah, we have, but it's really what happens after the wedding.
Okay, but Pradeep, I have 10,000 things I'm trying to deal with right now. I've got to make sure everything runs so smoothly tomorrow.
How on earth could you be bringing this up right now?
And a prenup?
I haven't even turned my mind to the thought of that. I don't understand.
Is this something your mother put you up to?
Because this doesn't sound like you at all. So I'm going to stop you guys right there.
Yeah, please do. I've got a pretty good idea of how this is going to go down.
Let's be real, right?
First marriages have quite a high rate of divorce, almost 50% of the 40s.
Second, even higher in their 60s. And third marriage is even higher than that. So the reality is this is a discussion that needs to happen. The night before the wedding, not such a good idea. As you can see here, Annemarie is pretty hurt.
Why would you bring that up before the happiest day of your life?
So it kind of starts off the marriage on the wrong foot, right?
So now there's a little bit of resentment happening, maybe on both of your parts, but definitely Annemarie, you could see she was shocked by it. Now you're entering this huge event that you are having the next day.
And how are you feeling, right?
How's Annemarie feeling?
She's feeling unsettled.
She's feeling like, and the big word is trust, right?
He doesn't trust me.
And then Pradeep's probably feeling, oh shoot, what am I doing?
Is she going to show up tomorrow?
I don't know.
So you're causing so much angst and you're starting off your marriage on the wrong foot, right?
So there's negativity, there's resentment, and it's very, very hurtful. So a big no-no, big, big no-no. And then we'll talk in the next few scenarios, other mistakes and how you can kind of combat those.
But yeah, don't do that. I've seen it before. It's horrible. It's so sad. Okay.
So the first big mistake is waiting till the last minute, right?
Waiting till it's way too late. I even like, I'm not even going through this situation for real. And I felt like I could feel the tenseness in my body. And I was just like, how the heck do I, and I'm just making this up. And so I could sense how guys could be super awkward when it comes to that.
So thank you for that analysis when it comes to, okay, let's just not do it too late.
So Anabrie, what do you think is a second, what's the second biggest challenge or mistake that men make?
And I just wanted to add one point about the first mistake, which is there are also legal implications. So we don't want to do things too closely in time to the wedding because it can make the agreement actually not as ironclad as we like. Because what happens is if it's ever challenged down the road, I could say that I was under duress signing it.
That pretty made me sign this on the eve of my wedding and the whole agreement can be tossed out by a judge. So you don't want to do that. If we're going to do this, we want to do it properly and make sure that any agreement we do is going to withstand any scrutiny down the road. So I just throw that in from my lawyer's perspective.
That is awesome because I didn't even know that. So you're absolutely right.
Yeah, that's really interesting. So I think guys, if you're planning on doing this last minute, it may not even be legit in the first place. So that's a great, great point. Thank you. So what is... And just sorry, one more point to give people just something to consider. It's okay that we can sign these agreements after the fact.
So just because you weren't able or perhaps you waited too long, it's okay, guys. You still can get a prenup, but we're just going to do it after the fact and we can give you lots of tips and tricks on how you do it after the marriage. It's just as binding. It's just as legal of a document. It's just done at a different time. So I throw that out there as well.
Oh, wow. That's an amazing point because I think most guys, and I didn't even know that, that clock, once the priest or whoever says, yeah, you guys are married, that's it.
You can't go back, right?
There's no turning back. It's all or nothing. So thank you for bringing that up because that's a very important point. I think that pressure really maybe adds to the tenseness of the conversation as well. Okay.
So great, great point. So second...
Yeah, I've had many clients, many clients come back to me and we'll just say, okay, let's put a pause on this. You guys go on your honeymoon, get things sorted in the new house, et cetera. And then we will circle back and we will have these discussions and we'll put the agreement together after the fact. Okay. That is a golden nugget there for you guys. A lot of people don't know that.
Okay.
So what is the second biggest mistake?
Okay. The second biggest mistake ties a little bit into the first mistake as well, and it's bringing it up to your partner at the wrong time. So think of some scenarios, like let's say you and I are on a summer holiday, we're enjoying some time maybe in Europe, just relaxing, having a great beach vacation and all of a sudden this has dropped in my lap. Yeah. So let's play that out. Sure.
So yeah, I'll start off this time.
So honey, how are you enjoying the vacation?
Oh my gosh, this beach is amazing. The food has been incredible. The wine has been so good. I'm pinching myself. This holiday has been so great for us. We've been able to disconnect. We've been able to recharge together. I'm really so happy and grateful that we've been able to do this.
So you're in a good mood right now?
An amazing mood.
I mean, how could I not be with all this amazing food and the sunshine?
Okay, great.
Because I wanted to talk to you about something and I think maybe some women take this in the wrong way, but how do you feel about a prenup?
Because I've been thinking about this and a lot of my friends have prenups and it seems like it's a pretty standard thing and I know there's some misconceptions about it, but maybe we can have a conversation about it now.
Are you really bringing this up while I'm sitting on the beach enjoying my mimosa?
I want to enjoy some downtime.
But why are we talking about this right now?
And what's bringing this up?
Why are you all of a sudden bringing this up?
Are you thinking of breaking up with me?
Are you leaving me?
What is going on?
No, actually, it's... Sorry. I was going to pause you guys because you guys can go. We can go on for a while. I think everybody kind of knows where it's heading, but timing is everything, people.
It really, really is. And I know Pradeep, you might be thinking, this role play particularly, she's relaxed. She's got a few mimosa, some wine in her, and she's a child drunk, so it's all okay. But it doesn't exactly work that way because yeah, she may not be fully aware if she's been drinking.
But timing, when you're out enjoying a holiday, you might feel like that's the right time to bring it up because you're both in a good place, there's no distractions.
However, you're kind of killing the mood there because this is a very sensitive topic, right?
And again, that word trust comes up. You don't trust me, you're taking me on a holiday and now you're bringing this up.
So it almost seems like maybe a little bit manipulative to the other person as well, right?
So timing meaning like, did you both have a good night's sleep?
There's no substance in you guys, it's really important. You wanna make sure you're fully aware of what's going on.
Have you been fed, right?
You don't wanna have a discussion when someone's angry, that's not a good idea.
So really kind of setting it up to, and this is all about being emotionally aware and emotionally mature, right?
Is knowing when a good time is to discuss these really important discussions with your partner and it doesn't even have to be about money. Having a relationship that's important, timing is key. Make sure you're fed, make sure you've had a good night's sleep, make sure there's no outside stressors. Your partner just came from the hospital because their elderly father fell.
You don't wanna be talking to them at that time, right?
So yes, timing is everything.
Vacation, probably not a good idea, enjoy the vacation.
Okay, so I got a question around that.
So if we're not supposed to do it on vacation, when is the right time?
Good question, because people will say there's never a right time, there's never a good time.
Maybe not, but there's usually a better time.
And that's what we wanna look at, right?
Is when you're in a good mood and you're relaxed, that's true.
But when you're away in a foreign country where people might feel not in their safe place, right?
You wanna make sure it's a very safe conversation. It's gotta come from a place of love and kindness and compassion. And when you're outside somewhere not in your own element, that could feel a little bit uncomfortable. So not the best time, there usually is, may not be the best time for anything, including divorce, to know how to tell your kids or each other, but there's usually a better time.
So it's really trying to figure that out and knowing your partner, right?
From my perspective, I found it's been very successful for clients to tie it into their discussions about finances. So this is another tool in your financial toolkit.
So what are our goals financially?
It's tied into your financial planning. It's tied into those difficult conversations, paying your taxes. Nobody wants to talk about that, getting your will in place. It's all part and parcel of that kind of a discussion.
So I think if you reframe it as conversations about your joint financial goals, and a prenup is just one of the tools for you both to reach those goals, it takes on a completely different meaning versus just sort of dropping it on your partner's lap in a bit of a vacuum of I want a prenup.
So Annamarie, from your experience, what is the, you would say, minimum time that is required to actually have a proper prenup where both people have some time to think about it, and then it goes obviously through the process and signing and everything.
What is that period?
What would you recommend?
Would it be six months before they get married?
Is it three months?
Have you found a sweet spot?
Six months is usually it.
I can, sometimes I can do it within the six month window, but it is very rare. The funny part is that it really should almost be tied in with the engagement. So once you get engaged and you start your financial or your wedding planning, this is also a great time to sit down with your partner and have that discussion about financial goals.
Because what I will tell you from just my own personal experience, the couples who are not on the same page financially are the ones I see more often than not on divorce. It is the single biggest indicator for me.
And frankly, I can even tell when couples come to me with a prenup, whether they're on the same page financially or not, and the likelihood I'm going to see this couple, at least one of them on the divorce end in five years, it literally is that predictable.
Now, to give people hope, however, you can get on the same page financially if you're not currently. So there are lots of things you can do to there's lots of supports, there's counseling, there's all sorts of things you can do to make sure you're on the same page is definitely something that is fixable. But you want to do that before you say I do. Very interesting.
I'm going to just add to the number one reason couples fight is money. And it's not how much money is our relationship to money. And so going to counseling or seeing a therapist when you get engaged for maintenance, which I love, I think it's the best idea ever, is really important.
So you can get on the same page and often one's a spender and one's a saver, they're often magnets, right?
And that creates a lot of friction. So having those discussions and having someone kind of deal with even just the however brought up to you have immigrant parents or mentality around money, those kinds of discussion can be really helpful in a therapeutic setting as well.
Yeah, so really good points there. I think there's two things that stand out for me. And one of them is because I come from the banking sector when I was in the corporate world. One of the biggest when we took a look at people becoming bankrupt, that was the biggest challenge was it's because of divorces. So there's a correlation there as well.
And I could see when these couples would come in, they were not on the same page when it came to the finances. And that's what led to not only their divorce, but the bankruptcy of the two individuals. So I think talking about finances before is absolutely important. So let's jump into actually before we get into that.
So someone there might be a guy out there listening to this and saying, oh, shoot, I'm getting married in two months.
Is it still okay to start the process at that time?
Well, I think it's personally fact specific. So it depends. Have there been ongoing discussions about finances, financial goals, etc. Then probably it's okay to have this bring this up, but recognize they're not going to deal with it until after the wedding. If there's never been any discussions about finances, etc.,
I think there needs to be a few more steps before the pre-nup conversation is commenced because I think it will be too overwhelming and frankly unfair to just drop that in the partner's lap.
Okay, great. So let's go on to the third mistake or mistake number three.
What would that be?
Well, we kind of talked about it a little bit. So I'm going to jump ahead on this one. But for me, it's wasting that opportunity of having the pre-nup as part of the discussion of your finances and your financial goal. So like what we talked about, the pre-nup really is a tool in your toolbox. It's like purchasing life insurance. It's like putting together your will, your power of attorney.
It's part of that whole process. And I think a lot of men waste the opportunity of adding the pre-nup into those financial discussions because they're scared. Got it. So maybe we can play that out. Okay. So Pradeep, we're talking all about our financial goals today. I'm really excited because I spoke with our financial planner. He says that it looks like we are going to be able to purchase a home next year.
I also talked to him a little bit about my business and my business is doing pretty good. So it looks like we're going to be able to invest a little bit more capital into my business. And I think I might actually be able to start making some real money with my business that I'm running. I also talked to the financial planner.
He indicated that we do need to get our wills updated or done, I guess. So I have the name of someone we're going to meet about that. We're also going to need some insurance because he talked about that as well.
Yeah, I think that's where we're at.
Well, that's awesome, honey, because it sounds like you're on top of all these things. So I appreciate you taking the lead on that and being so astute. One of the other things that I've heard just within this, and maybe we can talk to our financial planner, because it might come in with the wills is a pre-nup. Because I think that all kind of comes together when it comes to our financial goals.
And obviously, you're extremely successful in what you're doing.
So what are your thoughts on that?
Well, interesting you brought it up because my corporate lawyer mentioned something about that as well with my business. And she thought, you know what, it might not be a bad idea for you and Pradeep to have some discussions about the what ifs of life and not that we ever want to think like this. But we're mature, responsible, successful adults. I think we have to have these what if conversations.
What if we do separate?
I mean, I don't think it's ever going to happen.
But what if we do?
It happens to my business.
And God, what happens if one of us passes away sooner than we expected?
So I think you're right. I think we do need to sit down and figure out these what ifs.
Well, ching ching, where do we start?
All right. That was awesome. That's what you do. This is what you do want to do. And that came up very kind of organically in the discussion because you were already talking about some financial issues, estate planning, your business planning. So that is a great time to at least even plant the seed.
You may not want to have the full conversation because there's a lot of things to discuss, but you've planted the seeds. So Pradeep, you did that very, very well. And you asked a question. So this is a key for men. The little tip is when you ask a question instead of making a statement, it comes across as a much softer approach.
So Pradeep, you said, so what do you think about that?
That's very different than I think we should just get a prenup and we should really talk to a lawyer tomorrow. It's a very different energy. It's a huge tip. Ask the question. It's a softer approach. And it gives the other person, gives your partner some, oh, they do care about how I feel and what I think about this. So big tip, big tip. Awesome.
That one seemed a lot easier because you don't have to. And just on the receiving end of that conversation again, it felt better. It felt like I was part of the conversation. It felt like we were actually making decisions together. And that made me feel safer. Awesome. And it actually brings you together. It actually creates a stronger relationship.
And I just wanted to quickly point out as well that as the woman that's entering, because mostly men are watching this, entering this relationship, it's okay for women to bring this up because, listen, it's the reality. If you're coming into a marriage or a relationship where there's a lot of assets or a business or family business, it's a reality.
So I like the fact that Anna-Marie kind of said, actually, I was thinking about it too, or I was advised about it as well. So it's okay for the partner to also approach and say, maybe you're thinking about this and I don't want to create any awkwardness, but let's just put it on the table and approach your partner. That's cool too.
It's funny you mentioned that because I'm always putting my marketing hat on and something interesting just popped up because it's all about influence. It's almost like the ideal situation would be for your fiance to bring it up in some way.
But something funny just came into my mind, having some kind of mail postcard come to her to saying, have you brought up a prenup with your husband or something?
Some unconscious messaging so that she's either positioned to take it on more, you can say openly, or she actually brings it up herself. But I don't know if there's a service out there that does that, but I'm sure that would make a lot of money. Great idea.
Okay, awesome. So let's go into the mistake number four.
What would that be?
This one is a big one actually. And it's not explaining your whys. And what I mean by that is just saying, I want a prenup or my father told me I need to get a prenup or my lawyer says I need to get a prenup and not really explaining your personal whys.
And I think once the whys are explained to your partner, and there are a number of reasons and none are bad, but it just, again, reframes the conversation and changes it from one where you don't think I'm trustworthy, or you think this relationship is doomed to fail to recognizing that you have certain values and beliefs, and that there is a way that we can work together to ensure that we're both safe, secure in the very unlikely event of separation.
That makes sense. So maybe we should play that one out. Sure. So that means you're out. Yeah. Okay. So I'm going to assume that we're six months out. We're talking about financial planning and it's part of the goals.
And we've had that and say, well, honey, what do you think about getting a prenup?
Do you think this marriage isn't going to work?
I don't understand.
Pradeep, I've got my own job. I'm good. I don't want your money. I'm not a gold digger. I'm not going to do any of that. You don't need to worry. We're good. I'm really very, very, very surprised that you're bringing this up and you think this relationship is going to fail. It's not that I don't think it's going to fail.
I just heard that it's a really good idea and that a lot of people are doing it. So I just thought maybe we should do it too. You heard this on TikTok.
Does someone do a TikTok video about prenups?
I don't know. That's just not us. That's fine for those people. It's not for us.
Look, if you're in this, you're in this with me. We're not going to be doing any type of prenup or anything like that. We're in this together. I'm not a gold digger. I'm not coming after your money. You don't have to worry. Okay. My response would be, I know you're not a gold digger and I'd probably say something stupid again.
So Minnie, what do you think?
I'll save you. Save me.
Well, as we talked before about timing, our timing is everything. So it's the approach.
Again, making sure that it's a better time, not necessarily the best time, but coming at it with kindness and compassion. So the idea is not, look, everything that's mine is mine and yours is yours. And Anna-Marie can speak a little bit more to this in terms of negotiating the terms. You're actually saving yourself a lot of grief and you're setting yourself up for a discussion where both partners would feel protected.
And please chime in Anna-Marie. But you're negotiating if we were to separate or get divorced, you would be taken care of. The kids would be taken care of or this is what would happen. You've contributed as a stay at home mom. So the value of that is huge. So don't worry about that.
And you're actually creating some security, which is kind of opposite of what people might think that are creeping up as like, you know what, you're not getting anything. And that's not it at all.
Right, Anna-Marie?
It's really a negotiation. You're going to save yourself so much grief and you're doing it when you actually love each other. When you're resentful and hate each other and you're so angry. You're doing it when you love each other.
So actually sometimes, and again, Anna-Marie, you could speak to this is you might actually as the man actually be very generous in the prenat or so than what family law entitled them to because you care about her and you know that she's going to be the mother of your children or whatever the case is, right?
So it's the approach is really important. So another tip is to use eye centered communication.
And what does that mean?
It means focus on yourself. So I would really like this. I would really appreciate this. You need to sign it because my dad said you should because that's pointing fingers and you've lost the person.
They're defensive, right?
So the approach is really, really gentle and loving and kind. And don't worry. You're going to be taken care of. You're worried about that. I want to make sure that we're both feel good about this.
And then it's going to bring you guys closer together, right?
The idea is to provide emotional security. So explain why. The reason I'm saying this is because my grandfather built this business generations ago. It's always been in the family. It's really important for my family to keep it in the business. But don't worry. Even if you don't have anything to do with the business, you're going to be able to provide this to you or whatever the case is.
I'm not going to get into the locality.
But again, you're creating a safe space. You're using eye-centered communication. You're coming at it from a very loving, kind, compassionate place and secure. And I think that's a really good point. The agreements we're doing is not all or nothing. So it's not a matter of I keep everything. You get zero. You're destitute. I'm going to hoard all of my money. That's not what this is about.
This is about finding something that is fair and reasonable for this couple. Because the alternative is you don't do this. And then you're stuck with the family law act, the family law legal system. And everybody thinks the system is split 50-50. It's fair. It is not fair. I have countless clients who are shocked at how the law actually divides their assets.
So the idea here is we come up with an agreement that is fair for both people. Another interesting point is you will find most times when you explain your whys, you'll find that the other person is of course saying, well, of course I'm not going to take your grandfather's cottage. I would never consider doing that. And so you'd be surprised how much you're on the same page.
Another thing as well, a lot of my clients have had this conversation too, which is they've witnessed their friends, their parents go through horrible, nasty divorces that have destroyed their kids, that have caused so much stress, even putting the money aside. So the idea of even explaining, I don't want the two of us to go through this if we can avoid it.
I want to put something together that's fair and that we're both going to have certainty in the very unlikely event that we separate. And so that's why the whys are so important. Great points there. I took a lot out of that myself. So thank you for that information. So let's jump into mistake number five. All right. This is probably the biggest mistake actually.
So we kind of saved the biggest one for last and that's doing nothing. Men being so afraid of having this difficult conversation, they don't know how to bring it up. They don't know what the reaction is going to be. They don't want to disrupt how well the relationship is going by making this ask. So they do nothing. Apathy. And then they cross their fingers and hope.
Hope this doesn't go, hope they don't separate, but we already know 50% of marriages for the most part will end up in divorce and separation. And it's higher at 70% for second marriages. And we're just going to hope. We're going to hope our way through this and hope nothing happens. And then unfortunately, if it does happen, we're now in the legal system. That is not fair.
It's going to result in a lot of financial uncertainty and frankly could have all been prevented. Okay. So this is really interesting because working with many men, what I find is that men with even let's just say significant level of confidence. So these are successful men. They've done very well for themselves.
They have no issue with self-esteem or confidence or getting along with people and can hold their ground in the toughest situations. But they cower when it comes to their wife, their spouse, and they have a difficult time talking about conversations, not just money, but other things as well.
So I'm not surprised, but I was surprised when I would see these men just go from the business setting of being, you can say these giants into being these tiny little men that feel almost, I'm going to say sheepish when it comes to talking to their wives. So I'm going to go over to you, Minnie.
What do you see when it comes to not just prenups, but some of these tough conversations when it comes to maybe even divorce or separation or let's just say finances, is that very common?
Is that something you see as well?
Oh yes, all the time because it often comes from a place of fear, right?
The fear of being abandoned, fear of losing this relationship, the fear of conflict, people are just don't want to rock the boat. But what ends up happening is we often think that that's probably a better idea is I don't want to rock the boat. Let's just hope and pray that things work out. But then what happens is when you don't speak up, resentment gets created over time.
And when you feel resentment towards your partner, it can come out and manifest in many really negative ways, often passive aggressive.
So comments that are kind of rude or mean or, oh God, another purse, like didn't you just get one yesterday?
Or really what you want to say is you value the money more than us or you're going to deplete us with your credit card bills. And I should have talked to you about this before, but I didn't. And you're angry at yourself.
And guess what those dynamics are in that relationship or that marriage?
It's not going to be healthy. But if you want a healthy marriage or relationship, it's a learned skill. It's a learned skill for sure. And this is where going to a therapist just for maintenance, not even when there's a problem, is to learn those communication tools. Nobody teaches us this. If we think about our parents, most of us haven't had the best examples. And trust me, Hollywood doesn't help us.
So learning those skills and tools of how to approach and have conversations and actually listening, that that's the biggest part of communication. We have two ears and one mouth. We're not very good at listening. So going to therapists to actually doing some premarital counseling is huge.
I think it really is going to help the discussion on the money and the financial agreements and estate planning and everything, right?
Anything that comes up.
Yeah, you want to make it healthy. I can tell you on my end, the calls that I get, and it's inevitably every single one of my male clients who fall within this category, they'll say to me, but I'm in love. I recognize, yes, you're in love, but I don't think it has to be mutually exclusive with getting a prenup. I think you can be in love and also do a prenup.
And I don't think one necessarily means that you can't have the other. And exactly like many said, the most successful relationships have communication where it's open and you're talking about your goals, including your financial goals. So using the, I'm going to call it an excuse that I'm in love not to get a prenup. It's just not good enough. It's not good enough in the grand scheme of things, but it's very common.
And you know, I would say that having a discussion about an agreement prior to getting married a prenuptial agreement can be actually one of the most loving things you can do because what you're doing is saying, I'm going to make sure you're okay now, right?
We're not going to fight about it later and hate each other and have our kids. I'm going to make sure that we both come to an agreement that we're both okay with. If God forbid something happens in our marriage doesn't succeed. So it can come from a very loving, kind place and be probably maybe one of the best things you could do for your marriage and for your partner.
Because now your partner's in the marriage going, you know, gosh, if we, you know, you hear things, I'm going to get a shark and I'm going to take him to the, you know, who wants to be in that energy when you're without a fear, you're in fear, but because you're secure and you sign this and you know, God forbid if something happens, we're all going to be okay.
You actually can actually, you know, focus on the marriage and enjoying it instead of the what ifs, right?
So it can be very loving.
It doesn't have to be this, you know, I think sometimes we have this notion that, you know, the prenuptial like divorce papers, like here's prenupt, sign it, you know, and it's like that at all, right?
It's, it can be very loving.
Okay, awesome. I got a ton of value from this conversation and something else that you just, you just talked about there, uh, Mini was having this conversation perhaps, um, with a professional present, so that some of these conversations can be more neutral and guided and it's just easier to have those conversations.
So maybe, yeah.
And you said something else too, because you said perhaps it's, it's a good idea for them to just to have these sessions regardless, right?
Couples should be on the same page. I agree with you because there's a number of things we talked about.
Most men, and I'm just going to say couples in general, just from our research and experience, don't even talk about things like values, how they want to raise their children, where do they want to live, finances. It's all great before, but they haven't talked about that long-term plan or what that looks like. And I think there's a lot of assumptions that are made there.
And so I'm a firm believer that it's a great idea to actually do that kind of work before and having a professional there to kind of guide and mediate and maybe be, maybe a referee at times as well might be a good idea.
Well, that's what premarital counseling is.
It's bringing up those difficult issues, right?
That you wouldn't normally talk about.
It doesn't come up like it in laws, right?
Or how are you going to take care of elderly parents?
Is it, is there a cultural aspect to it?
Yeah.
Or do we want to put our kids in Catholic school or public school or private school?
All these discussions that you wouldn't think, we'll deal with it when it comes, right?
Because that's human nature. What happens, but premarital counseling sets you up for success.
It doesn't mean it's guaranteed success, but definitely sets you up for success because the tools and communication are what's important, not the actual topics, if that makes sense, right?
How do you bring it up?
How do you hear each other?
How do you negotiate?
How do you solve a problem in a healthy way?
Okay. So I want to thank both of you for sharing such wisdom here today because I know people will watch this and they'll be like, okay, they've taken some value from this.
So for those individuals who might be interested in either getting some kind of couples therapy or counseling or however we want to word that, or have a conversation around prenups and maybe let's just say hopefully not divorce, but let's say prenups.
Anna-Marie, where can people go?
What's your website that people can go to to get more information?
We're at mlawgroup.ca. So you can go on our website and we have a lot of articles and things like that about some of the things we've seen come up with clients and just offer some information. And of course, anyone can give me a call and I'm happy to do a preliminary call just to give them some more feedback and suggestions on some options that might work for clients going forward.
Okay, great.
And Minnie, how about yourself?
Where can people find you?
Yeah. So you can Google my name or my website is guidingjourneys with an s.ca and you can find my information there. My phone number, email, you can even text me and I'll respond to that within usually 48 hours. And I also offer a free consultation if you have any questions about the process and what that might look like or just getting to know me.
You can definitely contact me and we'll make some time to do that for sure. Great. Thank you so much. And I'm interested.
I think we're going to do another one of these but focused around if it's technically called a post-nup, but how to bring up these conversations or maybe some of the challenges that happen where you're already married, you're already in a relationship and you haven't had a pre-nup or you don't have a pre-nup.
How do you bring that up?
How do you deal with that?
So stay tuned for that because I think that one will be even more value for the individuals tuning in here because most of the gentlemen that do watch this are married. They most likely have kids as well. So they're in a different stage. Thank you so much. Yeah. Thank you. That was fun. Great.