Supercharge Your Bottom Line Through Disability Inclusion | Novacoast

Podcasts By Dr. Kirk Adams

Dr. Kirk Adams hosted a webinar on disability inclusion in cybersecurity, highlighting the Apex program, which prepares blind individuals for cybersecurity careers. The program, developed by Novacoast, offers a 10-week training course for CompTIA Network+ and Security+ certifications, costing $7,500. The program aims to place 400 blind individuals annually in cybersecurity roles, addressing a significant employment gap. Key features include flexible learning, employer support, and a strong industry network. The webinar emphasized the transferable skills from contract management services to cybersecurity and the potential for career growth, with starting salaries around $35,000 and potential earnings of $95,000.

Outline

Introduction and Overview of the Webinar

• Speaker 1 introduces the podcast, emphasizing its focus on disability rights, employment, and inclusion.
• Speaker 2, Dr. Kirk Adams, welcomes everyone to the monthly live stream webinar titled "Supercharge your bottom line through Disability Inclusion."
• Dr. Adams introduces himself as the Managing Director of Innovative Impact LLC and shares his background in disability inclusion.
• He introduces two teammates, David Main and Katie McAuliffe, and welcomes a new team member, Kalana.
• The agenda includes a video about the Apex program, perspectives from David and Katie, and a Q&A session.

Background of the Apex Program

• Dr. Adams recounts the history of the Apex program, which began during his tenure at the American Foundation for the Blind (AFB).
• The AFB was named as the third central nonprofit agency under the Ability One program, leading to a five-year cooperative agreement.
• The research phase identified three lines of business: contract management, digital health, and cybersecurity.
• Despite the pandemic, the research highlighted cybersecurity as a promising field for people who are blind.
• Dr. Adams transitioned to his consulting practice, Innovative Impact, and connected with Dan Berlin and Jack Chen, who were involved in the Race Across America.

Development of the Apex Program

• Jack Chen and Dan Berlin were organizing the Race Across America and seeking sponsors.
• AFB sponsored the race, and Dan Berlin introduced Dr. Adams to Novacoast, a cybersecurity company interested in hiring blind individuals.
• Dr. Adams met with Novacoast's CEO, Paul Anderson, and was given the green light to develop the Apex program.
• Katie McAuliffe joined the team later, bringing extensive experience from IBM and Novell.
• The Apex program was created to prepare blind and visually impaired individuals for certifications in networking and cybersecurity.

Personal Stories and Success of the Apex Program

• A video featuring personal stories of individuals involved in the Apex program is shown, highlighting their struggles and successes.
• One participant, David Jr., shares his journey from a severe accident to pursuing a cybersecurity degree.
• Curtis Jackson, another participant, discusses his experience with unemployment and how the Apex program changed his life.
• The video emphasizes the potential for blind individuals to succeed in cybersecurity careers.
• David Jr. and Curtis both found employment at Novacoast, proving the program's effectiveness.

Vision and Future of the Apex Program

• David Main outlines his vision for the program's growth, including expanding to more states and potentially international markets.
• The program aims to offer high school students the opportunity to earn certifications before graduation.
• The goal is to support students beyond entry-level training, providing further certifications and job opportunities.
• Dr. Adams expresses his admiration for the program, stating it aligns with his career-long mission to create opportunities for people who are blind.
• Katie McAuliffe discusses the unique features of Novacoast and how the company's support enhances the Apex program.

Career Opportunities and Industry Support

• Katie McAuliffe explains the various career paths available in cybersecurity, from entry-level roles to specialized positions like threat hunters and penetration testers.
• The industry is supportive of continuous learning and certification stacking, allowing for career advancement.
• Novacoast's annual cybersecurity conference provides opportunities for graduates to network with industry leaders.
• The company's staffing division, Novaco Staffing, helps place graduates in positions.
• Dr. Adams emphasizes the importance of vocational rehabilitation partnerships and other funding models to support the program.

Q&A Session and Closing Remarks

• Amanda Gomez from Vibrant Works asks about accessing the training independently of state vocational rehabilitation.
• Dr. Adams confirms that alternative funding models are possible and shares examples of successful partnerships.
• Katie McAuliffe provides pricing information for the program, which costs $7,500 and includes both CompTIA certifications.
• The program is designed to be flexible, with students having 10 weeks to complete the training, but the pace can be adjusted.
• Dr. Adams invites further questions and encourages viewers to visit the Apex Program website for more information.

00:00 Music.

00:09 Welcome to podcasts by Dr Kirk Adams, where we bring you powerful conversations with leading voices in disability rights, employment and inclusion. Our guests share their expertise, experiences and strategies to inspire action and create a more inclusive world. If you're passionate about social justice or want to make a difference, you're in the right place. Let's dive in with your host, Dr Kirk Adams,

00:36 and welcome everybody to my monthly live stream webinar, webinar called Supercharge your bottom line through Disability Inclusion, I am Dr Kirk Adams talking to you from my home office in Seattle, Washington, where it's pouring rain outside. For those who don't know me, I am the Manning managing director of a consulting practice called innovative impact. LLC and I work with companies to help accelerate inclusion of people with disabilities in the workforce and to help them supercharge their bottom line through Disability Inclusion. Immediate Past President and CEO of the American Foundation for the Blind. I before that held the same roles at the lighthouse for the blind Incorporated, and I am featuring today a wonderful partner Apex program, which prepares blind people for careers in cybersecurity. And I have two of my Apex program teammates here, David main and Katie McAuliffe, and you'll hear from both of them a bit later. I also want to welcome kalana to the innovative impact team. She joined us Monday, and she'll be working with all of you to share social media and so welcome. Thank you. Thank you, kalana, so the and then we'll after I tell, after I tell my story of what brought us all here today. Then we'll show you a six minute video produced by working nation about the apex program, to give you a flavor of what we're doing here in creating these career opportunities for people who are blind. And then we'll hear perspectives from David and Katie. We'll make sure you know how to connect with Apex program, and then we'll have some time for discussion Q and A. So the story really has two, two interweaving narratives. The first is, when I was at the American Foundation for the Blind, we were given the opportunity to be named as the third central nonprofit agency under the Ability One program, which is a federal procurement and employment program that allows nonprofits employing people with disabilities to obtain government contracts. And we entered into a five year cooperative agreement with the AbilityOne commission, and the first phase was called research and study, and we we spent two years doing in depth research. AFB is a renowned research organization, and our charge was to identify three new lines of business that could be introduced into the Ability One program that would create career pathways into competitive, integrated employment and fulfilling careers for people who are blind in knowledge based work. And we identified three lines of business. One was contract management or civilian federal agencies. The second was digital health, or telehealth, and the third was cyber security. And the criteria we were using in our research work, we wanted to find industries with a wide range of career paths, industries that have projected long term above average growth and employment opportunities, industries where there were career paths that were accessible to people who are blind and have other disabilities, industries where advanced degrees were not required,

04:21 industries that had

04:24 strong infrastructure around commonly accepted certifications, industry associations, and finally, industries that that had indicated that They were being proactive around Diversity Equity and Inclusion and cybersecurity fit all of those criteria. We finished our research and study phase, delivered our line line of business analyzes to the AbilityOne commission, and then the pandemic set upon us, and we did not see a way to. Operationalize at that point. So we exited the cooperative agreement after phase one. But cyber security is something I immerse myself in for several years, as far as a field of endeavor for careers, for people who are blind. Fast forward a little bit as I made my change then stepped out of my role at AFB and launched my consulting practice. Innovative impact I did. I did what they call activate your network. So I went, went through my LinkedIn, and reached out to people that I had great relationships with and shared my passion for employment of people with disabilities and let them know I was setting off on a new adventure and was just looking for fun, innovative, high impact projects with cool people that would accelerate inclusion of people with disabilities in the workforce. And I reach out to a blind friend and colleague named Dan Berlin, and now I'll start the second part the second narrative. In 2020 as a FB was preparing for our centennial, centennial year in 2021 I was contacted by a blind friend and colleague named Jack Chen, who at that time was Assistant General Counsel at Google working in New York at Chelsea Market offices. Afbs offices were about 10 blocks from his when I first moved to New York to go to AFB in 2016 Jack reached out and said, We should meet. We did. We became friends. He reached out to me in 2020 to say that he and a blind person named Dan Berlin who I didn't know yet, we're putting together a team to do the race across America. And the Race Across America is a single stage bicycle race, the longest in the world, from the Pacific Ocean and Santa Barbara, California, Santa Monica California to Annapolis, Maryland. And a single stage race means someone on the team is always peddling. And they put together four tandem bicycle teams with a blind professional on the back and sighted guide on the front, and they wanted to put together the logistics to compete in this race, and they were looking for sponsors. So AFB had put together a budget to celebrate our centennial in 2021 and we had designated $25,000 to sponsor something cool. And I passed Jack and Dan on to our communications lead, and she thought it was a perfect fit. So we were the lead sponsor at AFB of the race across America. And footnote, there's a documentary film called surpassing site, and Jack and team will be my guest here next month, last Thursday in May, and talk about the documentary film. In any case, I had reached out to Dan as I activated my network and told him I was looking for fun, innovative, high impact things to do with cool people. And he called me about a month later, and he said my wife and I were on vacation in the Seychelles, and my wife went on a dive trip, and she met a lady who was a co founder of a cybersecurity company called novacoast, and they are very interested in creating a significant presence in cybersecurity for people who are blind. And David main will tell you how that program was developed, but they were just at the beginning stages. They, as a wonderful, privately held entrepreneurial company, put resources in places where they want great outcomes. So I had the opportunity to speak with their CEO, Paul Anderson, who was here in the Seattle area. We talked about the possibilities of engaging significant numbers of blind people in the cybersecurity industry, and I was given the green light to join David and his Apex program team. And then Katie joined us a bit later. So with that, if we could show you the video and give you the flavor of where we're at with the apex program, and then we'll hear from David and Katie.

09:44 I've tried to give my kids the best life that I can. I've been a good dad. I've sucked as a mother, but I've been a good dad. Every parent wants to provide the best they can for their kids, and knowing that you have a disability. That is going to take years to recover from. I think that wears on me. That's a lot of pressure. A young man ran a light at 70 miles per hour, hitting me so hard that I wound up breaking both my ankles, on my ribs, damage to my head, damage to my arms, my retina was partially detached to later fully detached. The last few months before I lost my eye, I was taking Vicodin like Tic Tacs. Within a year of that, I was divorced and raising the kids on my own. After six years, I returned to school to kind of recreate who I was. I'd always loved computers, and David Jr had started at a local two year college taking network classes, so I started taking the same degrees he did. And the student walked up and said, you know, if you take 12 more credit hours, you can get your cybersecurity degree too. I know Inkling what cybersecurity was. I'm like, but that sounds cool. I'll do that. The shortage for cybersecurity analysts is massive, hacking, ransomware, malware is prevalent and getting worse, cybersecurity analysts, or SOC analysts, analyze the suspicious activity and try to prevent it before the hackers can cause any damage. Colleges, universities, two year schools cannot produce enough analysts, so there's a great need to fill these roles. Once I got my degrees, I started looking for work. I wanted to work at a specific company. I met with the recruiter, and unbeknownst to me, that recruiter had decided that, because I had one eye, I could not work on computers all day long. Eventually, I found novapost. They hired me in as a security operations center analyst. I'd come down here to meet with some organizations, and one that I met with was envision, they are a nonprofit that works with the blind and visually impaired community. I had no clue of the unemployment situation for the blind and visually impaired. Most of the jobs that they work are menial, minimum wage type positions. The high end jobs were working in a call center, and that there was really no better option. After that meeting, the light bulb went off. There's a great unemployment in the working age of people that are officially impaired, and there's a great employment gap in this field. So my boss, Paul and I developed the apex program, which is a 10 week training program where we prepare people that are blind and visually impaired for certification exams in networking and cybersecurity. I know you can be a blind cybersecurity analyst, because I have individuals that are blind that are doing it.

13:10 I am Curtis Jackson. I was born blind due to congenital glaucoma, and glaucoma runs in my family. Growing up in a town with the only blind person I did kind of lean into the idea that people thought that I needed to be in the special ed classes, even though I knew I didn't belong there. After I left Louisiana Tech, I bounced around for a few years, and then I got a telemarketing job. It's not what I want to do, but if I don't do it, I'm not going to be able to take care of my family, I did that for a couple years, and then I get told we're in your positions, so you have six months to find another job. Some notification on Facebook came up about the cybersecurity program called the apex program, and so I filled out everything that I needed to and got started on May 1. I'm like, this is a 10 week program. We'll just see what happens. What happened was, at the end of the program, David was so impressed with me, he said he wanted to get on a call. And next thing I know, I'm getting an email that says, novakos offer letter. So I immediately go to my boss's office and put in my notice.

14:27 Curtis is our first student that graduated to come to work at novacoast. Just amazing. From day one, he was like, I can't wait to work. You know? I can't wait to change careers, to get a career. Our CEO told me, If you come across a student that you think would be a good fit for our culture and that can do the job, let me know. And I Ding, ding, ding, he's the guy.

14:50 It feels great to say I am a SOC one analyst. I think having this job will give me a chance to do more things. With my family, and hopefully I can use this experience and opportunity to help others change their lives. In 2017

15:10 a recruiter decided that with one eye working, that I couldn't do the job. A few years later, we proved that somebody that can't see very well could do the job. And yesterday, we proved that somebody that can't see it all can do

15:28 the job. I look at it as me starting this job to help blaze a trail, working with others and pioneering so other people can start this job all across the country, across the world.

15:42 Nobody gets through life alone without help. It just it's impossible, but to be able to know that I am helping people get a better career, I could not be happier. Yes, blind people can do this, and we need to do this nice father, me too.

16:07 Well, I want to thank Joan Lynch, Ramona schindelheim, Melissa Panzer at the working nation team, for creating that and I'll thank Google for covering the cost of working nations. Great work on on the documentary. So, so with that, David, let's fast forward a little bit to where we are. Now you want to talk about, maybe fill up, fill in a little bit, anything that couldn't fit in a six minute video, and talk about there's a lot. Talk about your talk about your vision. Talk about your vision for the future of the program.

16:47 Yeah, so my vision is to see the program grow. Because of we don't generally take money from students. We rely on state vocational rehab agencies to cover the funding, which means we have to get set up with each state individually. So my vision is for us to be able to eventually get set up with every state and eventually take the program International, providing more opportunities around the US right now, I believe we're 1214, states, so we have a lot of ground to catch up to, but the vision is to keep growing the program. We want to do things like offer high school seniors, high school juniors, an opportunity to start earning these certifications while they're wrapping up high school, so they can go right into their chosen careers when they graduate, just like everybody else does. We want to expand what we offer to give further certifications. Once someone's in the workforce, there's a lot of work to be done. What we're teaching now is the entry level, the basics of what you need to start the job. But we want to support our students along the way. We want to see the staff augmentation section of the program to expand to more companies. We want to to get more companies to sign up and say, hey, we'll interview your your students for positions. So that's that's kind of the focus as to is growth, both in the US and in the job market.

18:36 Thanks, David and I,

18:39 I've said this numerous times since I've been involved with the apex program, I have been devoting my professional career to creating opportunities for people who are blind for 30 years plus. And if I were going to design something from scratch, it would look an awful lot like the apex program. And love for Katie to talk about how the apex program fits into the cybersecurity world, since she has been immersed there for a while now, and also some of the unique features of the entrepreneurial company, novacoast, some of their other activities that fit so well, making the apex program so dynamic.

19:25 Katie, great. Thank you, Kirk. I really enjoyed being here today. David, I can't watch that video without getting teary every time. So that was just so beautiful. So yes, as Kirk said, I work for novacost and have been at novacoast to be 14 years in June. And prior to that, I come from IBM and from Novell, or basically other it computer cybersecurity companies. So that has been my entire career is working in that space and managing teams, etc. Are in that space. Novacoast is private, no outside investment. I think we're going into our we're in our 28th year, I believe. So we've been in business quite a long time. Fabulous expertise in a very boutique area of cybersecurity, security, software development, identity and access management, but really very focused on security and high end security. We have our clients are really the global financials who have very sophisticated security systems. And the reason why I say all this is when you think about the apex program and the training that we are talking about here today, the fact that apex is a division of novacost, which is a true long term entrepreneurial cybersecurity company just gives a lot of benefits to the program. David came up through our security operations centers as an analyst. He wrote the curriculum for this has a great background in it. And then the other organizations, like Kirk mentioned, novacoast being the parent company, apex is a subsidiary or division. And then we also have novaco staffing. So for a very long time, we've been doing staffing and placements of high end engineers and developers in our customer base or with other organizations. So novaco staffing is going to support apex. We also have a division called novacoas Federal. We do business with 40 federal agencies. They've been working with us and some of our graduates in terms of placements with the federal government. And we have a cybersecurity conference we run every year with 120 CISOs. So we've developed this whole community of organizations that stand around Apex willing to support us and support our graduates. And to Kirk's point, I sort of agree. It's a perfect storm of a number of things, and so we're very grateful for that.

21:56 When we we have a newsletter. We just issued on our second one this week, I will invite anyone who's interested in the apex program to go to the apex Program website, which is www dot the apex program.com there is an inquiry form, so if you are a prospective student or employer or service provider, please fill out the form. We will happily dialog with you whatever your level of interest is. A couple things to add. So the White House, July last year, created a national strategic framework on workforce development and education for cybersecurity. And they cited in their 62 page document that at that point in time, there were 755,000 open jobs in cybersecurity. And I believe the newsletter cites 63,000 open jobs this week for those holding the certifications that the apex program prepares people for program is very young. We are very much in the spirit of continuous quality improvement. We are evolving as we go the program is on a new learning management system. As of April 1, there are four distinct different accessible ways that students can access the curriculum, depending upon their preferred learning style, certifications, network plus and security plus our industry recognized the certified find bodies called CompTIA. The testing body is Pearson. The tests are accessible to screen readers. Students can access the curriculum virtually. It's designed as Curtis, mentioned in the video to be a 10 week program. 20 hours per week is the pace that is preferred. We are nothing if not flexible, and students can access that 20 hours and get that done whatever works for them and their lifestyle. Students are monitored. There are daily quizzes. The learning management system gives visibility to student progress, and then if student seems to be getting off track a little bit, David main swoops in and touches base with the student, and they have conversations and one on one time until things are back on track, the tools that people use are basically web websites and search engines, so get questions often, what level of technical expertise does a person need to have in order to be successful? And taking the course, being certified, and doing the entry level work, and it's really being able to efficiently operate in a website and a search engine. Productivity tools commonly used in the industry have proven to be largely accessible, I think, as we can all say who are blind and been in this world, it's tough to find anything that's perfectly accessible, but I would say they're largely accessible. We have run across some issues. We're able, Katie is able to call up the C suite people at the people who produce these tools, and say, Hey, you have an accessibility problem. And as most of us also know, they'll say, Oh no, we're 508 compliant. And we'll be able to say, No, you still you have some issues. So we're using this as some action research. And

25:56 the long term, I believe,

25:59 when we're fully mature, we can move 400

26:03 blind and visually impaired individuals per year into cyber security careers. When you have those kinds of numbers, you can really impact the industry. Also add that were we're very open. Not only open, our mission calls for including people with other disabilities and military veterans. We began with focus on blindness and visual impairment that will continue to be one of the pillars of the program. Again, back to my comment that if I were able to create a program from scratch, it would look a lot like this. As I said, the environment is largely accessible. A majority of the jobs are remote. And as we all know, transportation is always a top barrier to successful employment. When, when we do research and we ask, what are the greatest barriers to employment, there's there's always a battle for number one and number two on one, employer, attitudes and transportation. Sometimes it's one, sometimes that's the other. When you do your research, another factor is degrees are not required. And I I say I'm a disability employment expert, not a cyber security expert, but I've learned that certifications are the key, and Katie can talk to this better than I but once you have your foot on the cybersecurity career ladder, there are many directions you can go, many careers you can pursue, depending on what you're interested in, and what I learned also is that once a person is employed at a company, this industry is very predisposed to supporting employees to grow and learn and to stack certifications, To add other certifications. Katie mentioned the Innovate division of Nova Coast hosting to cyber security conferences per year, where they fly in 120 or so chief information security officers, which I've learned are called CISOs. So 120 CSOs gathered for three or four days, and there's an opportunity to speak to each and every one of them. David and I attended two together, and we have a robust list of over 70 CSOs who indicated that they their teams would gladly interview graduates who come to them with a net network plus and security plus certifications. Again, there's the staffing division of Nova coast that can help with placement and connecting graduates with interviews and employment opportunities. And yeah, Katie, maybe you can expand a little bit on what the opportunities are once the person has completed the program, become certified and got that entry level security analyst job, where can people go from there?

29:10 Sure that's it's a great conversation to have. And I'm always conscious of the fact that if you don't come from the IT world or the IT industry, or what we really have only been calling cybersecurity for a few years. You don't know what the jobs are and what they entail. And a lot of times you don't know the acronyms, for instance, that we use all the time. So the best thing of all is, again, if you graduate from this program, when I should say, when you graduate, get your certificate of graduation, and then you'll take these two exams, and you get your certifications. You are prepared to be an entry level because of your certifications, your entry level, let's say a help desk person, a security analyst, as David and Curtis described in that video, the biggest. Is getting experience. So once you're in that job for six months or so, a year or so, you really can get better at it improving. There are, I don't even know how many more types of jobs and careers once you're in the door, there are things you could maybe you're interested in software development. We have, I think, a student in the class now, David that has a software development background, it's fine, get in the door, get in into a security role. There's always a need for software developers if you're in cybersecurity. Specifically, there's jobs like threat hunters that dial in or connect to organizations and roam around the networks and look for malware or malicious software, executables, et cetera. So that's a threat Hunter. There's penetration testers. If you think your security is great at your organization, then you usually pay someone to try to break in to your IT environment. But to the point that Kirk made, once you are in the computer industry or in this role in cybersecurity. You're not and you certainly don't have to do the same thing for the next five years. You can go left, you can go right, you can be promoted. And again, we have also jobs, marketing jobs and sales jobs. I mean, the industry has all those normal jobs as well. So it's really a great entree into the space. One other thing I wanted to mention Kirk that we you talked about briefly as well when we were talking about the White House and their strategy document on cybersecurity and workforce education, there's a federal government division called NIST, National Institute of Science and Technology. I believe NIST runs a website called Cyber seek. So again, it's C, y, B, E, R, S, E, E, K, cyberseek.com and that actually will tell you, you can click state by state by state, and you can see how many open cybersecurity jobs there are in your state. This data is gathered through the Bureau of Labor and Statistics constantly, and it's constantly updated. And if you scroll down to the bottom of that screen, you also see that there's a place where it says what types of certifications are required, how many jobs are available. For instance, that requiring the Security Plus certification, which is one of ours, and it's the second most requested certification in terms of open job opportunities. So anyway, I'm just saying like we we can talk about it all the time, how we have this real need to fill these roles, but the data is absolutely there, and you can check in your own state, and then you can see that a certificate like we'd give you in the apex program really is an entree into very viable employment.

32:47 And David, you, you were a hiring manager. You started at a security operations center, which I now know as a soc. You started working at a SOC, you managed a SOC, you needed to hire lots of people. And Apex program really started as you develop training programs for the general public, so that people, people could come work for you, get the training that they needed. And then at the evolved into the accessible, blindness focused Apex program. So could you talk a little bit about the characteristics that lead to success in the cybersecurity world? What types of folks tend to thrive?

33:30 So I would think

33:33 puzzle solvers, for lack of a better term, somebody that you know won't just look at something on the surface will will be a little bit analytical, a little OCD never hurts. I use my son as an example. He's got, he's autistic and has OCD, and he's probably our top analyst, but somebody that will pay attention to detail will for each of these events that come out, there's what we call a runbook so they don't no one has to recreate the wheel. There's a runbook that tells them if A happens to be if C happens to D. So someone that can follow instructions and will will follow along with what the run book says to do, be analytical. So the analyst job is to look at an event and determine, did it really happen, or is this a false alarm. And so you need that, that and that analytical, at least desire that to to dig into things, to go that next step. You don't have to be overly tech savvy to learn to do that. You know everything else can be taught. But if you if you can follow along instructions, and you're willing to take that extra step to find out what's really going on. To do some analysis to solve the puzzle you can do really well in these careers.

35:06 Terrific. Thanks. So again, I'm going to going to invite you, whether you're viewing with us, live or recorded session, if you have any level of interest in the apex program, please go to the web page. Fill out the inquiry form you'd love to talk to prospective employers, prospective students, prospective partners, service providers, folks in the nonprofit sector. You wonderful people who work in vocational rehabilitation. We're really building a village here. And welcome everybody who shares the common goal. Let's do something about the horrible employment outcomes for people who are blind that have not changed much in a long, long time. And again, I my vision is 400 blind people a year entering cybersecurity, and cumulatively, over 1012, years, four or five, 6000 blind people in cybersecurity, which will change an industry. So that's what I'm hoping to accomplish. Would love to work with you to make that happen again. It's www dot the apexprogram.com, and if we have any questions, comments, thoughts, this would be the time to speak up.

36:26 And Dr Adams, this is Amanda Gomez. I'm down in San Antonio at vibrant works, getting getting a nice overview. Yeah, what is the possibility of accessing the training independent of state? VR,

36:39 oh, yes, that was a great point. So we are open to any model that works. So my heartfelt conviction is I make every effort to create structures where vocational rehabilitation is a partner. They have funding that we taxpayers provide through the Department of Education. So I always, I always, want to fully involve vocational rehabilitation. We're certainly open to other funding models, and we'll give you one. We're working with the Chicago Lighthouse for the Blind. They do not have a training contract with the state of Illinois. They have a placement contract, but they have included the apex program now into grants, grant proposals that they've made. One is for a state of Illinois Workforce Development Grant, and they put in the tuition and cost for five students in that grant. And another is requesting funding to cover costs for 35 homeless veterans in the Chicago area to go through the program. So we're interested in flying people being trained, certified, hired, and there's, there's many, many paths to get there. So thank thank you for that question. Excellent question. I'm making a note to mention that next time, next time we talk about the program,

38:09 yeah, and I was going to say Kirk even envision, who was our first partner in Wichita, Kansas. Envision is using a grant to fund a number of the students that have that they have sent through Apex versus voc rehab. And I think it was a local grant. David might know more about it, but yeah, I mean the idea being, obviously, that we want to fund the students being able to take the course in whatever manner that works, the you know, the quickest, the fastest and the easiest.

38:39 Or is there pricing information on the website?

38:43 There is not pricing information on the website. The course is $7,500 and again, it's 10 weeks online on demand, about 20 hours a week. So 200 hours, we have found some students take a little longer than 10 weeks. Some actually take a little bit less, but that's about the expected time frame. And then that cost includes the ability for the students to take both exams. So CompTIA is network plus, and CompTIA Security plus twice. So every, everybody who takes these exams, every population cited none. There's a, you know, 30, 40% failure rate on the first time you take the test. I think it's 30% David, is that right? Anyway, they're hard tests, so we actually fund the ability for the students to take the test twice. And these are accessible, you know, if they can use JAWS or their screen reader, and we get that all set up for their ability to take those so that tuition includes all that.

39:46 Yeah, it's about a 30% sale rate. So regardless of site it not site it, experience doesn't matter. That's, you know, that's the way the exams are. So we'd like to give that second attempt. I. Um, the first attempt, when they get their score, will tell us how they did on the exam, not just point wise, but the areas of the exam they were weak in. And I will go back and make them a study packet to help with those areas so they're stronger the next time through.

40:17 Okay, I have another question. If no one else does, do you think someone transitioning from CMS to this particular role would be a good transition? I don't know. I know the skills are super related, but what could you see as that transition?

40:32 Yeah, so for for David and Kate and others, that's contract management services. Okay, that is an employment program under Ability One with the Department of Defense where blind and visually impaired individuals are closing contracts. There are hundreds and hundreds of 1000s of open contracts, and those funds are obligated until the contracts are closed, so when the process is completed contract was closed, then the funds go back to be used for other things, federal government and absolutely perfect, Very, somewhat similar, I think the cyber security processes seem somewhat more structured than the CMS processes that I've witnessed when I was at the CEO the lighthouse in Seattle. We stood up three Contract Management Services offices in San Diego, and I spent quite, quite a bit of time there. So I that is a great point you're making my next presentation stronger, because I'm now putting great, transferable skills between contract management services and cybersecurity analysis. So thank you for that.

41:53 Yeah, I mean the attention to detail that David mentioned, the puzzle solving which contract management can be at times, and just being able to follow a process or dig in and figure out why something isn't correct, yeah, I think very transferable. I bet cybersecurity will end up paying more, though, in the end,

42:15 I will say that's clearly true. People doing contract management services are paid according to the cert Federal Service Contract Act, which prescribes what the pay is. So the we haven't really talked about that, but I think David, if you want to, or and, or Katie, want to talk about kind of starting salaries and the quick acceleration to higher levels in the general terms, that would be helpful.

42:47 Yeah, so starting salaries on the very low end, probably 35 to $40,000 a year, and six months to a year. You can be looking at 70s, 80s, 90s a year just depends on what flavor of cybersecurity you decide to go into. Nobody really remains a level one analyst for a long period of time. They find out what they like to do in cyber, and they pursue that. And those fields all pay well. You know, they all do. I won't name a company that, in the past, has headhunted me, but they required a Security Plus certification and two years experience, and they were starting remote work at $95,000 a year. So the the low end is 35 to 40,000 and there really is no ceiling. It just depends on what specialty that you go into in in the field of cybersecurity,

43:55 yep, and then they want you to have some experience. So the the whole like, what's going to happen for our students is they're going to have the certifications, they're going to get the experience, and then everything only goes up from there. All

44:08 right, I will come back up some more questions. So the two certs that students would graduate with from the program are the CompTIA network, is that correct? And the other one, what is it that they what are the search that they have when they're done

44:23 network plus and Security Plus? Oh, right, okay, and we teach network plus, because if they're novice, that gives them all the building blocks that they need, even for their security career. And then security plus is the entry level cybersecurity certification.

44:45 In the industry, if someone obtains these credentials and then gets an entry level job, and they see that pathway that like I want to specialize in, this, is it typical for their current company to pay for additional certifications? Or in the industry, is that self funded after the initial. Cert.

45:02 A lot of times, the employer will pay for them to get a new cert, or at least reimburse when they get a new certification. So I've seen employers pay for them to do boot camps and get a cert. I've seen some that'll just reimburse, but generally, yes, they it's in the employer's best interest for them to get certified. Thank you

45:23 and Amanda, we're totally open as if new questions arise, please reach out. Thank you. Well, we'll talk to anyone, anywhere, anytime. Move this program forward. True. Appreciate you being here with us today, and really appreciate your insightful questions. So with that, we will wish you all a great rest of your day, and please join me next month, last Thursday of the month, 11 o'clock Pacific, where we will feature the documentary surpassing site,

46:03 and the surpassing site's

46:07 intention to create a social impact program based on the film, to accelerate inclusion of people who are blind in the workforce, which is what we are all about. Thank you so much for being here. Have a great rest of your day.

46:22 Thank you everybody. Thank you

46:24 Take care everyone.

46:27 Thank you for listening to podcasts by Dr Kirk Adams. We hope you enjoyed today's conversation. Don't forget to subscribe, share or leave a [e-mail] kirkadams.com, together, we can amplify these voices and create positive change until next time, keep listening, keep learning and keep making an impact. You.